{Fifth Part 3}
The FIFTH PART
OF THE
Christian Quaker
Distinguish’d From the
Apostate and Innovator, &c.
On the 11 Month, 1677. George Fox came to the City of Bristol, and after he had been there some little time, I was challenged by one professing the Truth, to bring forth what I had against G.F. This with some other passages between Friends at that time, occasioned my self and others to be concerned, in drawing up a few things wherein we were dissatisfied, not only relating to G.F. but others also: a Part whereof (chiefly relating unto George Fox) does now follow.
The first Dissatisfaction
We are not satisfied that G.F. hath of late been guided by the Spirit of Truth, in all such Matters relating to truth, wherein (of late) he hath concerned himself; neither are we satisfied, that those, who have of late looked upon him, as a man worthy of double honour, and owned him in all such Matters, have had therein a spiritual Discerning; {Fifth Part 4} neither are we satisfied, that the bare esteeming of him, as one that hath not of late in all things kept his Place and Habitation in the Truth, can be the fruit of a Dark of a Dark Spirit.
The Reasons of the above Dissatisfaction as to G.F. are in part, as followeth.
That divers passages in his book intitled, This is an Encouragement to all Womens-Meetings in the World, &c. are either unsound, or impertinently quoted.
The First Quotation
Page 43. of the said Book ‘tis thus said, And was not Micah’s Mother a Virtuous Woman? read Judges the 17th, and see what she said to her Son.
The very words of the Scripture are these. And there was a Man of Mount Ephraim, whose name was Micah, and he said unto his Mother, The 1100 Shekels of Silver that were taken from thee, about which thou cursedst, and speaketh also in mine Ears, behold the silver is with me; I took it; and his mother said, Blessed be thou of the Lord my Son: and when he had restored the 1100 Shekels of silver to his Mother, his Mother said, I had wholly dedicated the Silver unto the Lord from my Hand, for my Son to make a Graven-Image, and a Molten-Image; now therefore I will restore it thee; yet he restored the money to his Mother, and his mother took 200 Shekels of Siver, and gave them to the Founder, who made thereof a Graven-Image, and a Molten Image, and they were in the house of Micah, and the man Micah had an house of God’s.
The Quotation is enough to shew, that she was an Idolatrous Woman; and though it may be said, it is but a question askt; yet the answer it may be said, that if G.F’s real judgement be so, that she was not a virtuous woman, he hath manifested thereby a scoffing Spirit; but to manifest that such an Answer appears but a meer shift, that reader may observe, that about thirteen lines following he thus saith, {Fifth Part 5} So these, and such women are recorded to Posterity for their Wisdom and Virtue.
The second Quotation.
Page 43. And the woman of Tekoah, see what a Sermon she preacht to King David, 2 Sam. 13. 14.
The Scripture quoted informs us, that the woman was a subitle woman, whom Joab caused to feign her self as a Mourner, and go to King David with a lying story in her mouth, which accordingly she did; For when King David asked her; is not the hand of Joab with thee in all this? she answered, Joab put all these words in her mouth; so that if it were really so, that she had been the Occasion of pacifying King David’s wrath, yet it might more truly be said, that she deceived King David by her Lyes, that convinced him: besides, though the story was framed by Joab, for the sake of Absalom, who slew his Brother Amnon, and therefore fled, yet it appears that King David was appeased as to his Son Absalom (as in 2 Sam. 13. 39.) before the woman came to him with Lyes in the mouth. We now commend it to the Consciences of all to consider, how this Lying Story can be called a Good and Convincing Sermon, and be an evidence of a Virtuous Woman; for in a very few lines after it’s said (as before) These and such women are recorded to posterity for their Wisdom and their Virtue.
The Third Quotation.
Page 23. And the Women had their assemblies in the daies of the Judges and the Kings; Now old Ely was not against the Assemblies of the Women, who assembled by Troops, as you may see in the 1st Sam. 2. 21, 22. though some men now a dayes may be against Womens Meetings or Assemblies in the Gospel TImes; and against womens speaking and prophesying, &c.
The Scripture quoted tells us thus: So Ely was old, and heard all that his Sins did unto Israel, and how they {Fifth Part 6} lay with the Women who Assembled at the Door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation; which only proves that there was a Assembly of Men and women at the Door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation; who committed evil together.
At first view, this seemed so abominable a Quotation to prove the Assemblies of purified women, under the Gospel distinct from purified men to be necessary (which is the end wherefore ‘twas (as we take it) quoted) that we were concerned to inform our selves from the Scriptures, to what end women assembled before the Door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation; and we find by a marginal note in the Scriptures that it was (as the Hebrews write) after their Travel, when they came to be purified, as in Leviticus the 12th and 6th, where it’s thus said. Now when the dayes of her purifying are fulfilled, she shall bring to the Priest a Lamb of one year old for a Burnt-Offering and a young Pigeon or Turtle Dove for a Sin-Offering, unto the Door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation; which gives us occasion thus to query.
How can Women, coming in order to their Purification with a Sin-Offering, &c. to the Door of the Tabernacle of the Congregation, when defiled by the Men, that there accompanyed them, be a Proof for purified Women under the Gospel, to assemble together distinct from purified men?
The Fourth Quotation
Page 32. And likewise you may see Rachel and Leah their Counsel to Jacob, who answered Jacob and said unto him, is there yet any Portion or Inheritance for us in our Father’s house? are we not counted of him as strangers? for he hath sold us, and he hath quite devoured also our money; for all the riches that God hath taken from our Father, that is ours, and our Children’s: and now therefore whatsoever God hath said unto thee, do; this was Rachel’s and Leah’s counsel unto Jacob, and were not these three a Church then? and did he {[Fifth Part 7} forbid them from speaking in the Church? See Genses 31.14, 15, 16.
This we take to be a Quotation to evidence Womens speaking in the Church to be according to truth; but yet we cannot own it to be much (if any thing at all) better Argument for Womens speaking in the Church of God, when the Church is met to worship the Lord in his Spirit, than Womens Discourses with their Husbands about their outward estates, doth almost every day produce amongst us; and were it so that no better Argument could be produced for the justification of Womens speaking in the Church of God (in the sense we have understood speaking in the Church) we might be ashamed of our Principle and their Practice.
The Fifth Quotation
Page 42. And the Daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the Daughter of Jeptha, Judges 11th. So here they had a Yearly Meeting on this Occasion.
Our observation now is. Jeptha made a vow unto the Lord, and thus said, If thou shalt deliver the Children of Ammon into my Hand, then that thing that cometh out of the Doors of my house to meet me, when I come home in peace from the Children of Ammon, shall be the Lords, and I will offer it for a Burnt-Offering. And so it happened that his only Child being a Daughter, came out to meet him with Timbrels and Dances, and when he saw her, he rent his Cloaths and said, alas my Daughter! but yet at the end of two months, did unto her according to his Vow, having given her two months time, to go to the Mountains with other Virgins to bewail her Virginity which afterwards became a custom in Israel to go to the Mountains to bewail the Daughter of Jeptha.
This occasions us to query, whether such a meeting occasioned on the Untimely Death of a Virgin (for Jeptha’s {Fifth Part 8} Vow was a Rash Vow) can be any Evidence of the Matter, which is taken by us to be intended, viz. either for Womens speaking in the Church, or Womens Meeting distinct from Men on the account of worship to God, or performing Acts of Government, relating to Church Discipline?
Several other passages are contained in the said book, which we take to be in order to prove either womens speaking in the Church, when solemnly met together to wait upon the Lord to worship him in the Spirit; or Womens distinct meeting on account either of Worship, or exercise of Discipline in the Church of God, as in divers places of the said book may appear; but yet we are dissatisfied, that they are pertinent to the purpose.
We find by a Paper given forth by G. F. that he thus writes, “Friends, to you all this is the Word of the Lord; take heed of judging one another, and judge not one another, I command you in the Presence of the Lord, neither lay open one anothers weakness behind one anothers backs; for thou that dost so, are of Ham’s Family, which is under the curse, and that there be no backbiting behind one anothers backs, but love, and so the same that doth condemn behind the back is for Condemnation with the Light.”
This brings to our remembrance what Paul writ unto the Romans, chap. 2 ver. 1 therefore thou art inexcusable, Oh man whosever thou art that judgest another; for wherein thou judgest another, that condemnest thy self: for thou that judgest doest the same thing; but we are sure that the Judgement of God is, according to Truth, against them that commit such things; and thinkest thou this, oh man, that judgest them which do such things, and dost the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgement of God? From hence we observe:
1st, That unless G.F. pleads that he is more than a man, and on that foot claims a Privilege that he may give {Fifth Part 9} Instructions to others, as aforesaid, and yet be Justified in acting contrary thereto himself; and when he hath so pleaded, prove such a Privilege to be according to Truth, we are wholly dissatisfied that he can escape the Judgement of God.
2dly, We are not satisified, that all those whom we take G.F. to own, and who have appeared against John Story and John Wilkinson, have acted in many things relating thereto (and wherein we take G.F. also to own them) according to the aforesaid Counsel of G.F. and if so, may be esteemed as persons worthy to be judged according to the judgement given by G.F. and by the Apostle Paul also; and therefore we desire that G.F. and the Friends who have prest this meeting, will declare whether or no, what G.F. hath written (as aforesaid) be sound, and whether he himself, and every one else, who hath acted contrary thereto, be condemnable; and when they have so done, we shall be ready to come to a fair and equal Hearing, to manifest the Reasons of our Dissatisfactions in this Case: But unless the Friends who have urged this meeting will so do, we shall be ready to conclude, that they are not willing that the things occasioning the difference amongst Friends and the continuation and encrease thereof, should be brought to light; nor yet are willing to come to the touch, though they themselves have been ready to reflect on us, as declining a meeting, and not willing to come to the Touch.
The Reader may now observe, that such friends, as were at unity with G.F. and others that were at Unity with John Wilkinson and John Story agreed together to meet, fairly to debate Matters that might be objected, and in order thereto there were Articles of agreement touching orderly proceeding, that copy whereof (with the omission of one parties Name and his Subscription; for the Reasons mention' in the Preface to the 1_st part of the Christian-Quaker_) now follows:
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